Tom Holland Still Has to Pinch Himself to Believe He Gets to Play Spider-Man

Tom Holland and the Sticky Pork Buns

Welcome to Season 2, Episode 23 of Tinfoil Swans, a podcast from Food & Wine. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen and follow on: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

Tinfoil Swans Podcast

On this episode

When Tom Holland’s parents enrolled him in dance classes as a kid, no one could have dreamed he’d end up as an international superstar, internet icon, and entrepreneur — and he still has to pinch himself to believe it. The Spider-Man actor joined Tinfoil Swans to talk about some horrible lamb shanks he cooked, his favorite pizza place, getting sober, and his grand hopes for his new nonalcoholic beer brand, Bero.

Meet our guest

Tom Holland is an actor, dancer, producer, and entrepreneur. He was cast in a production of Billy Elliot at London’s Victoria Palace theater at the age of 10 after a member of the Royal Ballet spotted him in a dance school performance and has been working in theater, television, and films ever since. Holland was cast in the role of Spider-Man at the age of 18, first appearing in Captain America: Civil War in 2016, and recently concluded a run as Romeo in a modernized production of Romeo and Juliet at the Duke of York’s Theatre in London. In 2023, Holland went public with the news of his journey to sobriety and in October 2024, he launched Bero, a new brand of nonalcoholic beer. Holland is an avid golfer and along with his parents Nikki and Dominic, and brothers Sam, Harry, and Paddy, supports The Brothers Trust — a charity that raises funds and shines a spotlight on less high-profile nonprofits that focus on education, health, and social causes.

Meet our host

Kat Kinsman is the executive features editor at Food & Wine, author of Hi, Anxiety: Life With a Bad Case of Nerves, host of Food & Wine’s podcast, and founder of Chefs With Issues. Previously, she was the senior food & drinks editor at Extra Crispy, editor-in-chief and editor at large at Tasting Table, and the founding editor of CNN Eatocracy. She won a 2024 IACP Award for Narrative Food Writing With Recipes and a 2020 IACP Award for Personal Essay/Memoir, and has had work included in the 2020 and 2016 editions of The Best American Food Writing. She was nominated for a James Beard Broadcast Award in 2013, won a 2011 EPPY Award for Best Food Website with 1 million unique monthly visitors, and was a finalist in 2012 and 2013. She is a sought-after international keynote speaker and moderator on food culture and mental health in the hospitality industry, and is the former vice chair of the James Beard Journalism Committee.

Highlights from the episode

On pride and ingenuity

“I was making a movie in Canada. I was living with my best friend and my younger brother, renting a house in the middle of the forest. We had bear spray, and … we were not equipped as young men to be living there with no experience of living in the forest. We would cook on our outdoor fire all the time. We didn’t have a grill. We would get twigs, and we would skewer steak and stuff, and the three of us would cook on this fire that we would make all the time. I don’t know, just something about it felt really special — and it tastes like restaurant steak. I’m sure a chef would be furious at me saying that, but it was great, really tasty, and, I guess it made us really appreciate the food more.”

On coming around to his mom’s chicken dinner — and cooking for himself

“We were really lucky that my parents were adamant that we would have a family dinner every night. Whether it was my mom cooking or my dad cooking, the food was always excellent. It’s interesting growing up and eating some of my mom’s signature dishes, now that I have much more respect for the love and hard work that goes into cooking. She does this chicken broccoli bake, and when I was a kid, I absolutely hated it. I thought it was disgusting. Now, as an adult, if I know that she’s got that on her recipe list for the week, like you’d best believe I’m pitching up a chair to have dinner with her. I like my food.”

On his favorite pizza in the world

“There is a meal that I crave when I’m on the road. There’s a restaurant in New York called MAMO, and they do a truffle pizza with a white sauce. That pizza, for me, is without a shadow of a doubt the best pizza I’ve ever had. They do a rigatoni with a white sauce and a truffle garnish, and damn, it’s so good. It’s so good. Oh, I want to go to New York.”

On keeping perspective

“I’ve always been able to leave work at work. There’s been times where it’s been challenging but never overwhelming. Really it’s just about reminding yourselves that all you’re really doing, if you want to talk about the bare bones of it, all you’re really doing is telling a story. You’re not saving lives. You’re not changing the world. You’re just standing up there telling a story. And I think sometimes when you remind yourself of that, you realize that the stakes are nowhere near as high as people make them seem they are. Sometimes with chefs and staff when they’re cooking dinner, I kind of want to go back there and remind them like, ‘Just remember that you’re just cooking a bit of dinner. Like, all of us in here cook dinner as well.’ I know it’s super skilled and I couldn’t do what they do, but sometimes if it comes out a little bit late, don’t worry about it. I don’t care, just as long as it tastes good. I’ve always had a really healthy relationship with what it is that we actually do. I was flying somewhere the other day, and I sat next to a trauma surgeon. He was telling me about his job, and he was blown away about the stuff I was telling him. And I was like, ‘Dude, I literally lie for a living. You save people’s lives. Don’t be amazed about what I do.'”

On the geometry of a perfect relationship

“I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, and we kind of labeled [people] as squares and circles. Some people need structure, and they need to follow a sort of straight line. Then there are other people that are a little bit more malleable and can kind of pivot. I wouldn’t really say that I’m either of those things. In some cases, I’m really good if you just throw it at me and I’ll figure it out. And then, in other things, if I was building something in particular, I really love to have a clear set of instructions. It used to be the case where, like, I’d buy Ikea furniture and I would just throw the instructions away and be like, ‘I’m gonna figure this out.’ Now, I really like to know what I’m doing. But that’s what we were saying like, the perfect match is when a square meets a circle and they become an oval.”

On his wildest dreams

“[My 10-year-old self] would probably turn around and be like, ‘What the [expletive] is a SKU?’ I’ve been on this rapid crash business course of learning about what all of these different phrases are, and I sit in these board meetings, and I get so lost. And that’s why I’ve been so lucky with John, our Bero CEO, because whenever I get stuck, I just call him up, and he’ll help me out. But if I was able to go back in time and speak to a 10-year-old me and tell them about where we’re at right now, I don’t think I would believe myself. I was always a big dreamer. But, do you know what? That’s probably not true. I was always very ambitious, and I always had huge aspirations, so maybe I’d believe myself. I mean, [playing Spider-Man] I probably wouldn’t believe. Sometimes, I still pinch myself. I remember going to see Andrew’s first movie. I was shooting in Wales in a wonderful place called Llandovery. We went to the cinema. We watched his first movie. I absolutely fell in love with it. And, if you told me then — I was 16 then — if you told me then that within five years, you’d be playing Spider-Man, I would have lost my mind. Within five years? No, it was two years. I was cast when I was 18. Damn, yeah. I wouldn’t have believed you.”

On what he’d tell his younger self about getting sober

“I would say to myself, ‘Stick with it. There is light at the end of the tunnel, and you can bask in it when you get there.’ It was tough. It was really tough, but it was worth every minute, and I’m so happy [about] where I’m at. I wouldn’t change anything about my life. I feel very lucky to have had these realizations as early as I had. I’ve made some fantastic friends through sobriety, some great people in my business that I really look up to, I’ve reached out to, and leaned on, and asked for help and advice. I’m really grateful for those relationships, and I wouldn’t change anything.”

About the podcast

Food & Wine has led the conversation around food, drinks, and hospitality in America and around the world since 1978. Tinfoil Swans continues that legacy with a new series of intimate, informative, surprising, and uplifting interviews with the biggest names in the culinary industry, sharing never-before-heard stories about the successes, struggles, and fork-in-the-road moments that made these personalities who they are today.

This season, you’ll hear from icons and innovators like Daniel Boulud, Rodney Scott, Asma Khan, Emeril and E.J. Lagasse, Claudia Fleming, Dave Beran and Will Poulter, Dan Giusti, Priya Krishna, Lee Anne Wong, Cody Rigsby, Kevin Gillespie, Pete Wells, David Chang, Raphael Brion, Christine D’Ercole, Channing Frye, Nick Cho, Ti Martin, Kylie Kwong, Pati Jinich, Yotam Ottolenghi, Dolly Parton and Rachel Parton George, Darron Cardosa, Bobby Flay, and other special guests going deep with host Kat Kinsman on their formative experiences; the dishes and meals that made them; their joys, doubts and dreams; and what’s on the menu in the future. Tune in for a feast that’ll feed your brain and soul — and plenty of wisdom and quotable morsels to savor.